Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act

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Re: Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act

Post by djthomas » Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:22 pm

techmike wrote:There are rumors (so far unverified) that when HR38 passes the house and is sent to the Senate, Chucky and DiFi are going to add the NICS Fix bill to it. That would be sucky.
If it’s just the NICS fix bill that the same House committee reported then I have no problem with that.
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Re: Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act

Post by techmike » Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:55 pm

If Chucky & DiFi are co-sponsors - it will not be benign.
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Re: Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act

Post by techmike » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:57 pm

Secret is out of the bag.
Rep. Thomas Massie (R-KY) is warning that House Leadership plans to merge Obama-style gun control with national reciprocity for concealed carry.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... ciprocity/
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Re: Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act

Post by willbird » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:46 am

techmike wrote:If Chucky & DiFi are co-sponsors - it will not be benign.
The attempt to amend the bill re past DUI is a real alarm bell. One cannot have a past DUI sealed. Say a person had two within a year way back in 1991, and has not drank a drop since, this law could prevent reciprocity of CCW, and with a few tweaks, might even invalidate CCW issued to people with past DUI.


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Re: Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act

Post by djthomas » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:03 am

Has anybody actually read HR 4477? I have. It doesn't really do anything other than requiring agencies to submit reports that they are complying with existing law. It gives the states money to submit their data. Oh and it will require reporting on how often bump stocks are used in crimes. Whooptie doo.

It doesn't require or authorize federal agencies to come up with new disqualifiers. Incidentally the SSA tried to come up with its own reason for disqualifying people but since it was overruled by the CRA they are now statutorily prohibited from creating a substantially similar rule in the future.
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Re: Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act

Post by JediSkipdogg » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:14 am

djthomas wrote:Has anybody actually read HR 4477? I have. It doesn't really do anything other than requiring agencies to submit reports that they are complying with existing law. It gives the states money to submit their data. Oh and it will require reporting on how often bump stocks are used in crimes. Whooptie doo.

It doesn't require or authorize federal agencies to come up with new disqualifiers. Incidentally the SSA tried to come up with its own reason for disqualifying people but since it was overruled by the CRA they are now statutorily prohibited from creating a substantially similar rule in the future.
That's what I keep saying but I seem to keep being attacked by those saying it will add tens of thousands of names to NICS...well, they should be there already, after all, technically they are not legally allowed to possess whether or not they are in the appropriate database to begin with. Problem is, without them in there, they are unknowingly committing crimes by purchasing and being in possession.
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Re: Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act

Post by techmike » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:12 am

djthomas wrote:Has anybody actually read HR 4477? I have. It doesn't really do anything other than requiring agencies to submit reports that they are complying with existing law. It gives the states money to submit their data. Oh and it will require reporting on how often bump stocks are used in crimes. Whooptie doo.

It doesn't require or authorize federal agencies to come up with new disqualifiers. Incidentally the SSA tried to come up with its own reason for disqualifying people but since it was overruled by the CRA they are now statutorily prohibited from creating a substantially similar rule in the future.
Very true. It is still in the House: IF Rep Massie is correct, and 4477 is combined with HR 38 then sent to the Senate, Chucky and DiFi add their crap to it.
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Re: Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act

Post by djthomas » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:04 pm

techmike wrote:Very true. It is still in the House: IF Rep Massie is correct, and 4477 is combined with HR 38 then sent to the Senate, Chucky and DiFi add their crap to it.
Combining it with HR 38 within the House is a red herring. Massie seems to be complaining that House leadership wants to combine them. OK, so what? Both are "good" bills right now. When it goes to the Senate, whether it's one bill, two bills, or 2,000 bills, the Senate Democrats are going to do whatever they're going to do regardless. It's not like if the House sends HRs 38 and 4477 separately it will somehow outmaneuver the Democrats and prevent them from demanding concessions to avoid a filibuster. If anything, combining them might prompt a few critical Democrat crossover votes, although the D's are vastly superior at voting the party line when necessary. When it's time to call the roll Republicans prefer to fight among themselves and then wonder why they can't accomplish anything while in the majority.

It seems like Massie is getting all worked up at the House leadership for the sole purpose of manufacturing irrelevant outrage, which would be an example of what I just stated. Then again, it's being reported on Britbart which says a lot.
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Re: Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act

Post by bignflnut » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:52 pm

After conferring with the Virginia Citizens Defense League Board and one of our attorneys, Virginia Citizens Defense League is going to continue supporting H.R. 38, even when combined with H.R. 4434.

The combined bill is supported by at least two national gun rights organizations: Gun Owners of America and the NRA. The idea is that gun owners will gain far more by having National Reciprocity than would be lost to the bad parts of the Fix NICS component.

There are various theories floating around as to whether combining the bills is either a good strategy that will help get National Reciprocity onto the President's desk or a horrible strategy that will only get the Fix NICS bill on his desk. Should National Reciprocity die in the Senate, but Fix NICS survive, we will then contact our Representatives to kill the Fix NICS bill and also ask the President to veto the Fix NICS bill unless National Reciprocity is also put on his desk.
What could possibly go wrong?

I'm reminded of the Bungles performance last night, where they're up 10 points in the 4th quarter and I'm riveted to know how they're going to find a way to lose THIS game...
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Re: Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act

Post by Brian D. » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:20 pm

I have a pretty high level of regard for the Virginia Citizens Defense League, bignflnut. If you've paid attention to their track record of aggressive activism that led to much-expanded gun rights in their commonwealth, you should have some faith in them as well.
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Re: Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act

Post by bignflnut » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:23 pm

Oh no.
I was equating the US Congress to the Bungles ability to rip defeat from the jaws of victory, not the VCDL.
Thanks for the opportunity to clarify.

Case in point:
Now, three days after the bill's passage and with tech stocks slumping around the globe after at least a few tax experts noticed "The Alternative Minimum Tax Bombshell", or the retention of the controversial corporate AMT clause which "imperils GOP promises of business growth and more hiring," republicans appear to have finally figured out that rushing to pass the biggest tax overhaul since Ronald Reagan in the deep of the night wasn't the best idea, and according to Bloomberg, the chief Senate tax writer - the person who put together the bill that was passed 51-49 in the first place - wants AMT repealed.

According to Bloomberg, in a stunning reversal, two influential GOP senators - Senator Rob Portman of Ohio, one of the chamber’s main tax writers, along with Senator Orrin Hatch, chairman of the tax-writing Senate Finance Committee - said their preference is to repeal the corporate AMT.

“I’m not a big AMT fan,” said Portman, who also wants to repeal the individual AMT. “I’d like to end up there, but we’ve got to do the back and forth with the House.” Hatch added: “I’d like to get rid of it.”

Well, it was your bill, and you added the AMT: how did that happen? We don't know - perhaps the Goldman Sachs ghostwriter of the tax bill was unaware of that one small detail and left it in. As previously discussed, in a last-minute change, the Senate bill preserved the corporate AMT at its current 20 percent rate, along with a modified version of the individual AMT. The House legislation repeals both levies.
Salute, Sen Portman.
Last edited by bignflnut on Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act

Post by Brian D. » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:26 pm

And for further clarity, I wasn't issuing any kudos to the Bungles or the US Congress. :mrgreen:
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Re: Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act

Post by djthomas » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:01 pm

Brian D. wrote:I have a pretty high level of regard for the Virginia Citizens Defense League, bignflnut. If you've paid attention to their track record of aggressive activism that led to much-expanded gun rights in their commonwealth, you should have some faith in them as well.
As a follower of VCDL for years I should also point out that while they are aggressive they are very strategic as well. They take wins where they can and minimize losses. They try to really understand the proposals rather than parroting simple talking points from certain sources.

Like Otto von Bismarck they recognize that politics is the art of the possible, the attainable, the art of the next best. They realize that if you oppose everything that isn't perfect or could become less than perfect during the legislative process, you'll never advance anything. At the end of the day it's the bill coming up for final vote before going to the governor or president that matters.

It's not even halftime on HR 38 and we've already got people eating their young. Good grief. No doubt Chuck U Schumer and Di Fi love it when Republicans are nervous about advancing a bill out of fears of what they (the Democrats) might try to do when it reaches the chamber where they are the minority party.
Never ask if you can carry at a non-posted place, but always ask why you cannot at one that is!
Just because they offer call ahead seating doesn't mean you call ahead for carry permission.

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Re: Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act

Post by djthomas » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:44 pm

After one hour of debate HR 38 passed the House 231-198. Bill is passed and on to the Senate.
Never ask if you can carry at a non-posted place, but always ask why you cannot at one that is!
Just because they offer call ahead seating doesn't mean you call ahead for carry permission.

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Re: Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act

Post by M-Quigley » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:30 pm

djthomas wrote:After one hour of debate HR 38 passed the House 231-198. Bill is passed and on to the Senate.
Any links or examples of some of the most ridiculous arguments against HR38 during the debate?

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