Trump advocates confiscation before due process

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bignflnut
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Trump advocates confiscation before due process

Post by bignflnut » Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:30 pm

There's a video to support this...
President Trump proposes taking guns away from owners before going to court. "By the time you go to court, it takes so long to go to court to get the due process procedures, I like taking the guns early."
FWIW, the rest of the clips during this "meeting" re: gun control are not 2A friendly.
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Re: Trump advocates confiscation before due process

Post by bignflnut » Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:53 pm

Trump was responding to comments from Vice President Pence that families and local law enforcement should have more tools to report potentially dangerous individuals with weapons.
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“Allow due process so no one’s rights are trampled, but the ability to go to court, obtain an order and then collect not only the firearms but any weapons,” Pence said.

"Or, Mike, take the firearms first, and then go to court," Trump responded.

Trump met with lawmakers on Wednesday to discuss gun laws and school safety in the aftermath of a Feb. 14 shooting at a high school in Parkland, Fla., that left 17 people dead.
“A free people claim their rights, as derived from the laws of nature, and not as the gift of their chief magistrate.”
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Re: Trump advocates confiscation before due process

Post by M-Quigley » Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:27 pm

It's not just that. He's backpedling on support national reciprocity possibly. When asked about it by I think a republican Senator, he said it should be a stand alone bill, not combined with the gun control measures he supports, like raising the age to 21 for rifle purchases. He didn't say he'd refuse to sign it, he said that "you're never going to get it passed unless it's a stand alone bill." Not sure if he'd refuse to sign a combo bill if it did pass and it ever came to his desk or not. What will probably happen is the Dem's will filibuster, nothing will get passed, and the Dems will say the Republicans care more about the NRA than children's lives, or some such nonsense. :( To an anti gunner compromise is a one way street.

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Re: Trump advocates confiscation before due process

Post by qmti » Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:00 pm

M-Quigley wrote:It's not just that. He's backpedling on support national reciprocity possibly. When asked about it by I think a republican Senator, he said it should be a stand alone bill, not combined with the gun control measures he supports, like raising the age to 21 for rifle purchases. He didn't say he'd refuse to sign it, he said that "you're never going to get it passed unless it's a stand alone bill." Not sure if he'd refuse to sign a combo bill if it did pass and it ever came to his desk or not. What will probably happen is the Dem's will filibuster, nothing will get passed, and the Dems will say the Republicans care more about the NRA than children's lives, or some such nonsense. :( To an anti gunner compromise is a one way street.
Trump is leaning how to be a politician. Say one thing, do another.

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Re: Trump advocates confiscation before due process

Post by WestonDon » Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:20 pm

M-Quigley wrote:It's not just that. He's backpedling on support national reciprocity possibly. When asked about it by I think a republican Senator, he said it should be a stand alone bill, not combined with the gun control measures he supports, like raising the age to 21 for rifle purchases. He didn't say he'd refuse to sign it, he said that "you're never going to get it passed unless it's a stand alone bill." Not sure if he'd refuse to sign a combo bill if it did pass and it ever came to his desk or not. What will probably happen is the Dem's will filibuster, nothing will get passed, and the Dems will say the Republicans care more about the NRA than children's lives, or some such nonsense. :( To an anti gunner compromise is a one way street.
He's wrong. Reciprocity will never pass if it IS a stand alone bill. I'd have thought he'd of figured out how the Dems negotiate by now. I am deeply disappointed in Trump over this issue. The kindest thing I can say is that I believe that he seriously believes his position is a reasonable, legal and viable solution to the problem. I think it really bothers him when children are harmed. That said, I don't believe he fully understands the things he has proposed nor the consequences (both intended and unintended) of those proposals.

One thing Trump or his people do understand, we are not about to go out and vote Democrat.
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Re: Trump advocates confiscation before due process

Post by Tesser » Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:49 pm

"One thing Trump or his people do understand, we are not about to go out and vote Democrat."
And that's the problem... This country needs a viable third party.
A constitutional conservative that is for fiscal responsibility would win my vote in a heartbeat.
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Re: Trump advocates confiscation before due process

Post by M-Quigley » Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:49 am

WestonDon wrote:One thing Trump or his people do understand, we are not about to go out and vote Democrat.
While that is true, I have seen plenty of elections in places, (mostly local or state) where when both candidates seemed equally anti gun, the pro gun side simply basically said to themselves "to hell with this, if their is no difference in them, why should I bother to vote, or vote for the Republican?

Even if they do vote for some other reason (like a tax levy) it doesn't mean they have to choose between the R and the D. Granted, the 3rd party candidate might not win, but for some people that's not what it's about. If there is low turnout or enough third party votes, the the R loses anyway.

Some people that I know are registered Democrats that may generally like the D position on things like unions, etc. but have voted for a R candidate when there is a clear difference regarding a gun issue. Most blue collar Democrats I know aren't anti gun, even if their union or their party is. But if there's no difference anyway, why bother to vote R?

Another consideration is I know plenty of gun owners who although they aren't officially NRA members, will the same way on most gun issues, and they do vote. Now in Trumps case it doesn't matter, but for the house and some in the Senate, this issue might matter at election time. Many of those people aren't constantly on twitter or some other platform supporting gun control but they still potentially vote. This is something people in the legislative branch should consider and understand, even if Trump and co. doesn't.

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Re: Trump advocates confiscation before due process

Post by bignflnut » Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:56 am

There are circumstances where police can act under clearly defined standards to seize guns pending judicial review. Those circumstances however would likely involve a court order or evidence of a criminal violation. For example, if police had probable cause to believe that a student could not possess a gun by law or was mentally unstable, they could remove the gun. However, the President’s comment came off a bit like the Red Queen’s rule of “Sentence first—verdict afterwards.”

The President’s embracing of the gun control measures clearly shocked some of the Republicans and delighted Feinstein who was described as “literally jumping for joy.”

This could be a fascinating and significant moment for Washington. Clinton was famous for his triangulation strategy that ended up costing many Democrats their seats. Trump seemed willing to oppose the NRA on these issues and force GOP members into a political vice between the White House and the NRA.
“A free people claim their rights, as derived from the laws of nature, and not as the gift of their chief magistrate.”
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Re: Trump advocates confiscation before due process

Post by Bruenor » Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:21 pm

and it gets worse..
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... fety-bill/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
President Trump asked Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) to add her “assault weapons” ban to the overarching school safety bill during a bipartisan meeting with lawmakers on Wednesday.
Feinstein’s bill, which is an enhanced reintroduction of a bill she has put forward again and again, bans over 200 different firearms.

During Wednesday’s White House meeting, Trump showed support for the gun control pushed by Sens. Joe Manchin (D-WV) and Pat Toomey (R-PA). The Manchin/Toomey bill is a gun control bill that the Democrat-controlled Senate rejected on April 17, 2013. But Trump chalked that failure up to Barack Obama’s lack of leadership, and talked of using the Manchin/Toomey bill as a base to which other bills could be added.

The goal was to create a body of gun legislation, ubiquitously for the purposes of school safety.
So who is going to vote against bill for School Safety ?
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Re: Trump advocates confiscation before due process

Post by rottman43055 » Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:53 pm

I can't figure if he is stupid or if he is being very slick so he can say "see I tried, but you guys can't agree on anything" so he will look as if he tried but nothing actually happens on gun control.
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Re: Trump advocates confiscation before due process

Post by propertymanager » Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:27 am

There is no doubt that Trump is a master negotiator and strategist. I'm not sure what he's doing on guns, but let's look at what he's done so far.

1. He's caused the democrats to completely and publicly expose their hand. They have now shown publicly that they want to confiscate every gun that is not a musket (and they want the muskets also). Even the dems in purple states are concerned that they have gone too far.

2. He has encouraged the dems to put an assault weapons ban in their background check bill - which will act as a poison pill.

3. He has proposed taking the guns before due process, which has caused a public backlash that has made passing it impossible.

4. He has proposed raising the age to buy a rifle to 21. That has also caused a backlash that will kill that idea.

5. He has proposed arming teachers and others in schools, which we know from the Israeli experience that this is the only real answer to the school shooting problem. It probably can't pass now, but he has elevated the discussion that will make this possible after the next shooting.

Trump has kept his promises on almost every other issue. I'm not ready to throw him under the bus until he demonstrates that he has actually betrayed us on guns. If he does betray us on guns, I'm done with him and will never vote for him or any other Republican that betrays us. However, at this point I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt!
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Re: Trump advocates confiscation before due process

Post by WestonDon » Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:00 am

I too will give him the benefit of the doubt. For now. But I am watching with skepticism.

It could be he's crazy like a fox.
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Re: Trump advocates confiscation before due process

Post by pk47 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:56 am

If you all would read "The Art of the Deal" you'd understand he NEVER opens with his final position, nor does he give it away.

He's fine. Way too many people take every word he says literally. He's not stating positions, but setting up negotiations and shaping people's emotions. It's a game at a different level. Time to look at him through a different filter for many of you.

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Re: Trump advocates confiscation before due process

Post by bignflnut » Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:44 pm

pk47 wrote:If you all would read "The Art of the Deal" you'd understand he NEVER opens with his final position, nor does he give it away.

He's fine. Way too many people take every word he says literally. He's not stating positions, but setting up negotiations and shaping people's emotions. It's a game at a different level. Time to look at him through a different filter for many of you.
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Here's hoping that you're right.
I suppose IT IS too much to ask for a leader that would make a pro-family, pro-self government, pro-self defense case publicly from start to finish, leading the conversation to places that are helpful...
“A free people claim their rights, as derived from the laws of nature, and not as the gift of their chief magistrate.”
-Thomas Jefferson, 1774

Tweed Ring: "...we should have all done more to elected Republicans..." Agreed

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Re: Trump advocates confiscation before due process

Post by Bruenor » Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:53 pm

pk47 wrote:If you all would read "The Art of the Deal" you'd understand he NEVER opens with his final position, nor does he give it away.

He's fine. Way too many people take every word he says literally. He's not stating positions, but setting up negotiations and shaping people's emotions. It's a game at a different level. Time to look at him through a different filter for many of you.
I want to think that, I want to believe that. If we are wrong, it's our Individual Rights that are at stake.
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- Thomas Paine

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